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@ckraatz ckraatz commented Sep 24, 2025

Summary

This PR seeks to correct terminology and other problems with decision points in GTFS-schedule and GTFS-realtime change processes. I'm open to feedback and discussion on this, and assure the community I do not take this topic lightly.

Describe the Problem

Currently, the GTFS and GTFS-realtime decision-making process includes the term "unanimous consensus" that is impossible to achieve because "unanimity" and "consensus" are two inherently different decision standards. Moreover, the perception that unanimity is or should be required leads to a small minority (possibly even just one contributor) having the ability to block consensus or progress that is generally favored by the GTFS community.

This hinders our ability to help the riders and agencies we're here to serve.

Use Cases

The changes in this PR would apply to all changes to GTFS-schedule and GTFS-realtime specs that are proposed after they are formally adopted.

Proposed Solution

  • Replaces "unanimous consensus," an inherently self-contradictory term, with "consensus" in some instances and "qualified majority" in other instances.
  • Lowers the bar for testing proposed changes, while keeping a reasonably high bar for formal adoption.
  • Defines "consensus" in the Guiding Principles of both GTFS-schedule and GTFS-realtime, as well as specifying how a contributor can declare their reservations/objections in a consensus process.

Type of change

GTFS Schedule

  • Functional Change
  • Non-Functional Change
  • Documentation Maintenance

GTFS Realtime

  • Specification Change
  • Specification Change (Experimental Field)

Additional Information

Proposed Discussion Period

Given the scale and scope of these proposals, I expect we'll need a month of discussion. I don't expect much more time than that to yield new feedback, ideas or observations.

Testing Details

N/A

Proposal Update Tracker

Date Update Description
(YYYY-MM-DD) (Brief description of the update)

Checklist

@gcamp
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gcamp commented Sep 24, 2025

The new governance didn't even have one proposal go through the full process, can we at least wait to test the new governance before changing it again?

@ckraatz
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ckraatz commented Sep 24, 2025

@gcamp we don't really need to wait to go through the new governance process to know that "unanimous consensus" is as impossible to achieve as 110% yes votes.

I would be OK with applying only the changes proposed to GTFS-realtime, which has the same problem and hasn't had any updates to governance in a very long time.

As soon as a proposal reaches the "unanimous consensus" point and someone is unwilling to consent, the community won't have the benefit of clarity. Do we need "unanimous consent" (currently, no), "consensus" (currently, no), or "80% majority" (currently, yes in some instances).

@etienne0101 etienne0101 added Governance Issues and Pull Requests that focus on GTFS Governance GTFS Schedule Issues and Pull Requests that focus on GTFS Schedule GTFS Realtime Issues and Pull Requests that focus on GTFS Realtime Change type: Functional Refers to modifications that significantly affect specification functionalities. Discussion Period The community engages in conversations to help refine and develop the proposal. labels Sep 29, 2025
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Change type: Functional Refers to modifications that significantly affect specification functionalities. Discussion Period The community engages in conversations to help refine and develop the proposal. Governance Issues and Pull Requests that focus on GTFS Governance GTFS Realtime Issues and Pull Requests that focus on GTFS Realtime GTFS Schedule Issues and Pull Requests that focus on GTFS Schedule

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3 participants